The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:45 pm

The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

A nutshell view of Gnostic Christianity is expressed in the first two links. The third shows the attitude and result of Christian and Gnostic Christian interaction. I should point out that Gnostic Christianity does not hold to any supernatural belief, although I know that the literature, mostly written by those who won the God wars, wants to show that we do. Our myths have a lot of supernatural entities but they are myths, not reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&t=3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4&t=338s

I heard the saying in the title of this O. P. some time ago and after looking at the moral aspects of both ideologies/ theologies; --- I think that statement to be true from a moral point of view.

Do you?

Regards
DL

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:27 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?[/quote]
False. The only good Christian is a dead Christian.

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:04 pm

[quote=""Hermit""]

Greatest I am;684283 wrote:The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

False. The only good Christian is a dead Christian.[/QUOTE]

So you see the two religions shows as morally equivalent. Ok.

Your morals are nearly as disgusting as Christians morals.

They, like you, seem to ignore moral arguments for your own Inquisition.

Regards
DL

dancer_rnb · Post by **dancer_rnb** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:07 am

False. I think Universalist Christians are good. Deluded, but good.

And maybe good/evil is an illusion.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:12 am

[quote=""Greatest I am""]Your morals are nearly as disgusting as Christians morals.[/quote]Nearly? How disappointing. I had hoped my morals were on par with those of all Christians. Which troubles me not at all, as long as it is I who gets to line them up against the wall, not the other way around.

Think of all the good it would do if we got rid of all theists. Population problem solved. Non-renewable resources will last us much longer. Best of all, there'll be a huge increase in the average IQ! What is not to like?

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:12 am

[quote=""dancer_rnb""]False. I think Universalist Christians are good. Deluded, but good.

And maybe good/evil is an illusion.

[/quote]

That is what Gnostic Christianity is as our views say that God does not need to condemn anyone as he would cure instead of kill and that is why we all end in heaven.

We also think that since we all contribute to what we all collectively are, any evil or sin must be shared by all.

What delusion or unfairness do you see in what I put?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:21 am

[quote=""Hermit""]

Greatest I am;684293 wrote:Your morals are nearly as disgusting as Christians morals.

Nearly? How disappointing. I had hoped my morals were on par with those of all Christians. Which troubles me not at all, as long as it is I who gets to line them up against the wall, not the other way around.

Think of all the good it would do if we got rid of all theists. Population problem solved. Non-renewable resources will last us much longer. Best of all, there'll be a huge increase in the average IQ! What is not to like?[/QUOTE]

Think of how horrible a world we would live in if liberals did not have conservatives to show them where they lack in social manipulation and control.

Yin without Yang is nothing.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haid ... anguage=en

Regards
DL

dancer_rnb · Post by **dancer_rnb** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 am

Well, some universalists are what I call punishment universalists. they believe in hell as a place of punishment or purification, but not one a being stays in forever. But they believe in the Fall and a need for redemption.

This gets back to the problem about why a triple O god would create people that would need to be punished at all.

I'll have to read your links on Gnostics to see what you see them as. I'm going by what I read other places, and while universalists may share some ideas I am not sure they two groups are the same. I was raised UU, and there is quite a variety in belief in the denomination.

Added: bit about belief in a Fall.

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:45 am

[quote=""dancer_rnb""]Well, some universalists are what I call punishment universalists. they believe in hell as a place of punishment or purification, but not one a being stays in forever. But they believe in the Fall and a need for redemption.

This gets back to the problem about why a triple O god would create people that would need to be punished at all.

I'll have to read your links on Gnostics to see what you see them as. I'm going by what I read other places, and while universalists may share some ideas I am not sure they two groups are the same. I was raised UU, and there is quite a variety in belief in the denomination.

Added: bit about belief in a Fall.[/quote]

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

This link shows why we have tied righteousness to equality which is how we end in being Universalists.

If we are all from the same source, then we should end at the same place after death.

Religions overplay their carrot and stick ideologies.

Regards
DL

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:31 am

[quote=""Greatest I am""]

Hermit;684295 wrote:
Greatest I am;684293 wrote:Your morals are nearly as disgusting as Christians morals.
Nearly? How disappointing. I had hoped my morals were on par with those of all Christians. Which troubles me not at all, as long as it is I who gets to line them up against the wall, not the other way around.

Think of all the good it would do if we got rid of all theists. Population problem solved. Non-renewable resources will last us much longer. Best of all, there'll be a huge increase in the average IQ! What is not to like?

Think of how horrible a world we would live in if liberals did not have conservatives to show them where they lack in social manipulation and control.[/QUOTE]Liberals are not hippies or anarchists. They lack in nothing concerning social control. They just exercise it more intelligently - and as Jonathan Haidt's charts so consistently show at - more humanely.

Conservatives are not the yang to the liberals' yin. They are mosquitoes, proof that if a god exists he is (a) not a particularly intelligent designer, (b)everything Richard Dawkins described the god of the old testament as being, (c) both of the above.

dancer_rnb · Post by **dancer_rnb** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:24 am

To some, universalism means eventual reconciliation with god or the trinity, rather than equality among people.

Even Satan and the fallen angels according to some.

Human equality is a different matter, though we tend to believe in it.

Do gnostics reject the old testament? Universalist tend to try to reconcile them with the gospels.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:56 am

A gnostic Christian also needs to walk a few steps forward to be good.

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:34 pm

[quote=""Hermit""][

Think of how horrible a world we would live in if liberals did not have conservatives to show them where they lack in social manipulation and control.[/quote]Liberals are not hippies or anarchists. They lack in nothing concerning social control. They just exercise it more intelligently - and as Jonathan Haidt's charts so consistently show at - more humanely.

Conservatives are not the yang to the liberals' yin. They are mosquitoes, proof that if a god exists he is (a) not a particularly intelligent designer, (b)everything Richard Dawkins described the god of the old testament as being, (c) both of the above.[/QUOTE]

You might want to listen more closely to what is said about liberals and conservatives and their attitudes and which group is more worthy of leading, which is neither as both groups have gone too far into the left and right.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:39 pm

[quote=""dancer_rnb""]To some, universalism means eventual reconciliation with god or the trinity, rather than equality among people.

Even Satan and the fallen angels according to some.

Human equality is a different matter, though we tend to believe in it.

Do gnostics reject the old testament? Universalist tend to try to reconcile them with the gospels.[/quote]

Almost an impossible task to a literalist.

Universalists recognize that they have never been condemned. The only salvation a Gnostic Christian seeks is saving ourselves from poor and immoral thinking.

We recognize the O.T. as the myth it is.

It had more value before the Christians changed much of the moral of the stories in it.

For example, the Jews saw mans elevation in Eden and that view was reversed to a fall when Christianity usurped the literature.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:43 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]A gnostic Christian also needs to walk a few steps forward to be good.[/quote]

I am not sure what that means in practical terms, but yes we do. That is why we jump right in and challenge evil thinking Christians by naming their Yahweh a genocidal son murdering prick and vile demiurge.

We see Christians not walking their talk and we try to teach them that it is immoral to adore a genocidal son murdering God.

Regards
DL

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:58 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]You might want to listen more closely to what is said about liberals and conservatives and their attitudes and which group is more worthy of leading, which is neither as both groups have gone too far into the left and right.[/quote]
Where did those goalposts disappear to?

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:07 pm

[quote=""Hermit""]

Greatest I am;684311 wrote:You might want to listen more closely to what is said about liberals and conservatives and their attitudes and which group is more worthy of leading, which is neither as both groups have gone too far into the left and right.

Where did those goalposts disappear to?

[/QUOTE]

I don't know. Mine are in place and you just have one post out of two.

A bird, like a decent political system, to fly straight, needs two wings.

Regards
DL

Roo St. Gallus · Post by **Roo St. Gallus** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:29 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]

Hermit;684314 wrote:
Greatest I am;684311 wrote:You might want to listen more closely to what is said about liberals and conservatives and their attitudes and which group is more worthy of leading, which is neither as both groups have gone too far into the left and right.
Where did those goalposts disappear to?

I don't know. Mine are in place and you just have one post out of two.

A bird, like a decent political system, to fly straight, needs two wings.

Regards
DL[/QUOTE]

Yeah? What if it has three wings? Or, say, seven wings? Does it matter if the wings are spicy hot, or not?

Oh, and last I heard, a set of wings without a tail is a death spiral. How does the tail fit in your schema?

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:43 pm

If you need a life with a purpose to your writing, instead of this waste of time, I can help you.

A human without purpose to what he does is not much of a person.

Regards
DL

Roo St. Gallus · Post by **Roo St. Gallus** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:13 pm

My, aren't you judgmental?

And, without answering a single question of the several I posed.

Are you doing this on purpose? Have you considered that I may have a purpose already and you just cannot discern it? Have you also considered that I may object to your purpose?

Please, please....Assure us that you won't show everybody your special purpose.

How is it you intend to 'help', if you won't even answer simple questions?

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 pm

I do not answer stupid questions and I see that you have not yet found a purpose for your time.

Regards
DL

dancer_rnb · Post by **dancer_rnb** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:38 pm

[quote=""Greatest I am""]If you need a life with a purpose to your writing, instead of this waste of time, I can help you.

A human without purpose to what he does is not much of a person.

Regards
DL[/quote]

We determine or own purpose.

Roo St. Gallus · Post by **Roo St. Gallus** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:30 am

[quote=""Greatest I am""]I do not answer stupid questions and I see that you have not yet found a purpose for your time.

Regards
DL[/quote]

Yeah? Like you would know.

Greatest I am · Post by **Greatest I am** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:30 pm

[quote=""dancer_rnb""]

Greatest I am;684322 wrote:If you need a life with a purpose to your writing, instead of this waste of time, I can help you.

A human without purpose to what he does is not much of a person.

Regards
DL

We determine or own purpose.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but we are all guided at different points of our lives by those we interact with.

Regards
DL

Roo St. Gallus · Post by **Roo St. Gallus** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:32 pm

So...Greatest.

It seems that you are here to proselytize the membership.

You certainly seem to think that you are somehow superior to 'regular' Christians because you are 'gnostic'. That seemingly alludes to your 'knowing' something, probably hidden, or secret, that makes you superior. Why don't you just impart that knowledge to all of us here and then move on to other, greener, pastures?

I personally think it is because you really don't 'know' shit. But that's just my hypothesis.