The Rohingya debate in India

DrZoidberg · Post by **DrZoidberg** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:09 am

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678803 wrote:If Hindus don't associate with violent people then how come the whole bit in the Baghavad Gita with Krishna and Arjuna is about Krishna talking Arjuna to get on with the killing again.

At times, that too is necessary. And when it is necessary, one must not shirk it. It is part of 'dharma'.
[/QUOTE]

Only using violence when violence is necessary to achieve your goals is not a profound thing to say (dharma). Hitler did that. It all depends on your goals. And I'm pretty sure that's how the Jihadis also see it. What is righteous is highly subjective.

The Bhagavad Gita teaches that fulfilling your duty is the highest good. Well.. is it?

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]
Yeah, society will change. Don't know how much time will it take. Probably West would return to arranged marriages.

Evolution and retro-evolution.
In most probability, West would perhaps discard the institution of marriage totally. It has become somewhat meaningless there.
[/quote]

The meaning of marriage 100+ years ago was to keep farmland within the family. I agree that, in the industrial world, we've had to reinvent marriage. But I'd argue that reinventing marriage as a nuclear family was a failure. Like we tried in the mid-20'th century. That's what Westerners are increasingly turning against. What the hippies were turned against. But that's not traditional marriage. Traditional marriages were extremely hierarchical, and are just not suited to the modern world.

If I'm to speculate I think marriages will get reinvented again, into something completely different. Probably something more similar to how hunter-gatherer bands were put together socially.

Something like big groups of close friends, where the men hang out together, and the women hang out together, and occasionally some of them have sex. And kids are raised, more or less communally. But not as hippie communes. Probably with some living alone. Or a couple of them sharing a flat together. That's what I think I'm seeing society moving towards.

Why do I think this? Because I think this is the type of societies we've evolved for. It's what will feel the most natural for us.

There's already talk of changing the marriage law in Sweden to allow multiple husbands and wives.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:11 pm

[quote=""DrZoidberg""]Only using violence when violence is necessary to achieve your goals is not a profound thing to say (dharma). Hitler did that.[/quote]Hitler was not following dharma. He persecuted Jews. He wanted what belonged to others. That is not dharma.[quote=""DrZoidberg""]There's already talk of changing the marriage law in Sweden to allow multiple husbands and wives.[/quote]Experimenting is good. However, we will keep to our ways for the time being.

DrZoidberg · Post by **DrZoidberg** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:39 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678860 wrote:Only using violence when violence is necessary to achieve your goals is not a profound thing to say (dharma). Hitler did that.

Hitler was not following dharma. He persecuted Jews. He wanted what belonged to others. That is not dharma.
[/QUOTE]

Nonsense. kshatriya's are the elite of the Hindu cast system. They rule. Ie, wanting what, in a just society, should belong to others. But they want it and take it. What's the difference between that and Hitler's idea of a master race? It's the same concept IMHO.

He saw the Jews as a disease. And used his religion to justify killing them. He didn't see them as real people. Just like Krisha used religion to justify to Arjuna that killing other people is fine.

Just because there's ways to interpret the Baghavad Gita in positive ways, doesn't change the actual text. It says what it says. Based on that I say that the original intent is the best option the authors could come up with a functioning society 500 BC. That was one brutish world. But we've moved beyond that now. There's no need to tolerate this degree of evil.

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678860 wrote:There's already talk of changing the marriage law in Sweden to allow multiple husbands and wives.

Experimenting is good. However, we will keep to our ways for the time being.

[/QUOTE]

No, you won't. The tradition of arrange marriages are right now dying in India. Are you disputing that?

subsymbolic · Post by **subsymbolic** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:15 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678860 wrote:Only using violence when violence is necessary to achieve your goals is not a profound thing to say (dharma). Hitler did that.

Hitler was not following dharma. He persecuted Jews. He wanted what belonged to others. That is not dharma.[quote=""DrZoidberg""]There's already talk of changing the marriage law in Sweden to allow multiple husbands and wives.[/quote]Experimenting is good. However, we will keep to our ways for the time being.

[/QUOTE]

Muslims, Kashmir and those pesky riots in Delhi that the BJP started back in '94 but which you say didn't happen. As for keeping your ways, is it time to talk about the BJP re legalising rape in marriage again - and your opinions about that?

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:43 pm

[quote=""DrZoidberg""]Nonsense. kshatriya's are the elite of the Hindu cast system. They rule.[/quote]Sure. That is the duty Hindu society gave them. And they had to follow the rules. All dharma shastras (scriptures) detailed what Kshatriyas were to do (including the one that my grandfather wrote around 1950 - Vishweshwara Smriti, 8,000 Sanskrit verses). That was known as 'Raj Dharma'.They had to train themselves for the job and when the need arose, they had to die doing their duty.[quote=""DrZoidberg""]No, you won't. The tradition of arrange marriages are right now dying in India. Are you disputing that?[/quote]"Research conclusions: 74% of Indians believe arranged marriage is better. In Tamil Nadu, New Delhi and West Bengal, only 59% think arranged marriage is better. While in Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan and Haryana, 88% believe that arranged marriage is better."

https://www.jodilogik.com/wordpress/ind ... mpilation/

https://medium.com/@solutionswebomania/ ... 4a46edb9e8

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ndtv-mi ... ges-498043

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:09 pm

[quote=""subsymbolic""]Muslims, Kashmir and those pesky riots in Delhi that the BJP started back in '94 but which you say didn't happen. As for keeping your ways, is it time to talk about the BJP re legalising rape in marriage again - and your opinions about that?[/quote]Kashmir Muslims accepted to join India at their terms when they were threatened by Pakistani tribals and army. Now after 70 yeas just because of religion they cannot secede. That they pushed out Hindus from the valley was wrong thing to do - or do you support 'religious cleansing'? What would happen if the Hindu majority areas in India would want Muslims to go elsewhere? India is treating them as softly as possible and giving them the chance to participate in honest democratic elections.

I am not sure which disturbance are you talking about. I have never denied nor I will ever deny communal disturbances in India. Of course, there have been many, most of the time started by Muslims and sometimes by Hindus as well. With 1350 million people, conflicts do happen. But the system stands firm.

As for 'marital rape', Supreme Court has recently mandated that all marriages with a girl of less than 18 years of age are null and void. As perhaps you know current law allows sex with wife after 15 years of age and the age of consent is 16 years. So, there is an obvious lacuna in the law. The Supreme Court and the Government is considering the issue currently. But please be informed that even if the marriage takes place earlier, girls are not sent to the husbands house at least before the age of 16 as per the tradition of 'Gauna'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauna
https://thewire.in/174448/marital-rape- ... marriages/

subsymbolic · Post by **subsymbolic** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:55 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

subsymbolic;678891 wrote:Muslims, Kashmir and those pesky riots in Delhi that the BJP started back in '94 but which you say didn't happen. As for keeping your ways, is it time to talk about the BJP re legalising rape in marriage again - and your opinions about that?

Kashmir Muslims accepted to join India at their terms when they were threatened by Pakistani tribals and army. Now after 70 yeas just because of religion they cannot secede. That they pushed out Hindus from the valley was wrong thing to do - or do you support 'religious cleansing'? What would happen if the Hindu majority areas in India would want Muslims to go elsewhere? India is treating them as softly as possible and giving them the chance to participate in honest democratic elections.

I am not sure which disturbance are you talking about. I have never denied nor I will ever deny communal disturbances in India. Of course, there have been many, most of the time started by Muslims and sometimes by Hindus as well. With 1350 million people, conflicts do happen. But the system stands firm.

As for 'marital rape', Supreme Court has recently mandated that all marriages with a girl of less than 18 years of age are null and void. As perhaps you know current law allows sex with wife after 15 years of age and the age of consent is 16 years. So, there is an obvious lacuna in the law. The Supreme Court and the Government is considering the issue currently. But please be informed that even if the marriage takes place earlier, girls are not sent to the husbands house at least before the age of 16 as per the tradition of 'Gauna'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauna
https://thewire.in/174448/marital-rape- ... marriages/[/QUOTE]

Ho Ho HO...

https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... ots&page=2

https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... 749&page=2

https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... elhi+riots

I could go on, there's nothing to say that hasn't already been said. The BJP are evil. You support them.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:02 am

[quote=""subsymbolic""]Ho Ho HO...

https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... ots&page=2
https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... 749&page=2
https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... elhi+riots

The BJP are evil. You support them.[/quote]What is this "Ho Ho HO..." for? You give the page and not the post. There is a way in which you can pinpoint the post by indicating the number. How do I find what exactly you are pointing to? I understand that you may not like to spend that much time on this discussion. In that case just forget the issue.

Not just me, but the majority of voters in India support Modi and BJP. They appreciate his social and fiscal reforms even when it has caused them some difficulties. After resounding victories for BJP in Uttarkhand and Uttar Pradesh, we are having elections in Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh. And in both these states BJP is slated to win comfortably (in Gujarat for the fourth time consecutively and wresting the control from Congress in Himachal Pradesh).

India Today-Axis poll survey: BJP wins both, Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh, comfortably.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/guja ... 74463.html

Times-VMR poll survey also gives an easy BJP win in Gujarat. The only question is whether BJP will increase its strength in Gujarat or not (i.e., from 120 to 150 out of 182, from 66% to 80%).
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/61228233.cms

Orange and Light Orange (Coalition with other parties) is BJP. Himachal is right below Kashmir and soon going to be Orange

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party

DrZoidberg · Post by **DrZoidberg** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:04 am

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678888 wrote:Nonsense. kshatriya's are the elite of the Hindu cast system. They rule.

Sure. That is the duty Hindu society gave them. And they had to follow the rules. All dharma shastras (scriptures) detailed what Kshatriyas were to do (including the one that my grandfather wrote around 1950 - Vishweshwara Smriti, 8,000 Sanskrit verses). That was known as 'Raj Dharma'.They had to train themselves for the job and when the need arose, they had to die doing their duty.
[/QUOTE]

So, exactly like Hitler. There's no difference. It reminds me of Kipling's racist poem "white man's burden". He wrote it about India. It's just a fucking horrible. Your statement above is the exact same twisted and perverse logic.

All people are inherently self serving. That's just human nature. As soon as one group have all the power, they will morally justify it to themselves. That it is all what you said is. And it doesn't make it right.

What chances do you think it is that the Bahgavad Gita was written by Brahmins? Do you think that might explain why it puts them at the top of the hierarchy?

Hinduism, just like any religion, is full of good and bad. It's a product of its time and age. The good think about Hinduism is that it's polytheistic. So it's scripture is fluid. Why not just let the obsolete parts of Hinduism die, and write new scripture that better fits today's world?

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

DrZoidberg;678888 wrote:No, you won't. The tradition of arrange marriages are right now dying in India. Are you disputing that?

"Research conclusions: 74% of Indians believe arranged marriage is better. In Tamil Nadu, New Delhi and West Bengal, only 59% think arranged marriage is better. While in Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan and Haryana, 88% believe that arranged marriage is better."

https://www.jodilogik.com/wordpress/ind ... mpilation/

https://medium.com/@solutionswebomania/ ... 4a46edb9e8

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ndtv-mi ... ges-498043[/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter what Indians say. India is one of the last places on Earth to ditch arranged marriages. A practice that was universal globally, now isn't. It's now rare. By studying how the tradition of arranged marriages died elsewhere it's pretty easy to successfully predict how arranged marriages will die in India. The simple truth of the matter is that it's an outdated obsolete way of getting married.

Arranged marriages is not an Indian thing. It's an agrarian thing. it's a practice that goes on in agrarian societies and then it dies once agriculture is abandoned in a family. It might take a coupe of generations. But it will happen.

The reason is pretty simple. It's got to do with the power dynamic. In a farming family the patriarch has all the power. Everybody in the family is dependent on the goodwill of the patriarch. If you are shunned by the patriarch you will most likely die, and die alone.

In an industrial economy the patriarch of a family has no power. Once the child is an adult and has found employment the only leverage the patriarch has is to be nice to their children.

It's simply a power thing. It's got nothing to do with any special cultural practice of India. In this regard India is not special. It's just backwards. Sorry for being blunt. But that's the plain truth of it.

When it comes to women's rights India is incredibly backward. Do you dispute that? That to is linked to power. In the agrarian world the patriarch has all power. So the situation for women sucked. That all changes in an industrial economy. And we get feminism and women's rights.

So access to legal abortion = an economically advanced society. Not having it = economically backward society. India is great in many ways. But this isn't one of them.

It breaks my heart when Indians upholds Indian problems as as something to be proud about. I think it's just sad. It's not cute or quaint. I think it's just an inability to look at yourself critically.

subsymbolic · Post by **subsymbolic** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:46 am

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]

subsymbolic;678910 wrote:Ho Ho HO...

https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... ots&page=2
https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... 749&page=2
https://www.secularcafe.org/showthread. ... elhi+riots

The BJP are evil. You support them.

What is this "Ho Ho HO..." for? You give the page and not the post. There is a way in which you can pinpoint the post by indicating the number. How do I find what exactly you are pointing to? I understand that you may not like to spend that much time on this discussion. In that case just forget the issue.

Not just me, but the majority of voters in India support Modi and BJP. They appreciate his social and fiscal reforms even when it has caused them some difficulties. After resounding victories for BJP in Uttarkhand and Uttar Pradesh, we are having elections in Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh. And in both these states BJP is slated to win comfortably (in Gujarat for the fourth time consecutively and wresting the control from Congress in Himachal Pradesh).

India Today-Axis poll survey: BJP wins both, Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh, comfortably.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/guja ... 74463.html

Times-VMR poll survey also gives an easy BJP win in Gujarat. The only question is whether BJP will increase its strength in Gujarat or not (i.e., from 120 to 150 out of 182, from 66% to 80%).
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/61228233.cms

Orange and Light Orange (Coalition with other parties) is BJP. Himachal is right below Kashmir and soon going to be Orange

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party[/QUOTE]

That's because I'm pointing at the whole damn sorry mess. The specific riots were the ones in Delhi that closed the city for several days around Holi in 1994. That was after the ayodhya crisis that was caused by the BJP destroying a mosque and fomenting rioting that killed thousands. It's all in there, as is your rationalisation and justification. It's amazing how you always forget.

As for your map of the glorious rise of the BJP you need to add Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland. It's traditional and the BJP love traditions, especially ones with the words 'thousand year' in them.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:48 am

Yeah, let me reiterate. Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura, these three sites belong to Hindus, and where Muslims destroyed temples to construct mosques. At some point of time we will get all of them. Ayodhya/Babri is nearing resolution and some time before 2019, construction of he temple will be started there. If Muslims died in the aftermath, Hindus also died. We have no need to add Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland, and we are satisfied with what we have. As for 1,000 years - yes, Hinduism and Indian culture have survived for a long time and another 1,000 years may not be an exaggeration.

subsymbolic · Post by **subsymbolic** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:05 pm

Yeah, let me reiterate. Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura, these three sites belong to Hindus, and where Muslims destroyed temples to construct mosques.

In Ayodhya's case the claim is widely regraded to be mythical outside of Hindu extremists looking for a fight. The mosque you destroyed was five hundred years old.

At some point of time we will get all of them.

Are you deliberately quoting Nazis?

Ayodhya/Babri is nearing resolution and some time before 2019, construction of he temple will be started there.

I hope you'll call it the Reichstag...

If Muslims died in the aftermath, Hindus also died.

In a crisis started by the RSS and BJP and in riots started by the same gangsters.

We have no need to add Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland, and we are satisfied with what we have.

Surely you need more living room?

As for 1,000 years - yes, Hinduism and Indian culture have survived for a long time and another 1,000 years may not be an exaggeration.

As with others making that boast, you'll be in the gutter inside of a decade or two. The BJP's hateful behaviour is the seeds of its demise. I just hope for the sake of the innocent you don't start a local nuclear war...

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:37 pm

[quote=""subsymbolic""]As with others making that boast, you'll be in the gutter inside of a decade or two. The BJP's hateful behaviour is the seeds of its demise. I just hope for the sake of the innocent you don't start a local nuclear war...[/quote]We will leave that to Trump and Kim. However we will be happy to build bigger and grander mosques for Muslims when they give us the three hollowed sites. We are not against Muslims. We want Indian Muslims to be happy here. Some of them are unnecessarily taking an adversarial stance against BJP by supporting the corrupt Nehru-Gandhi Congress. They should understand that the dynasty's time is over.

subsymbolic · Post by **subsymbolic** » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:31 pm

We will leave that to Trump and Kim. However we will be happy to build bigger and grander mosques for Muslims when they give us the three hollowed sites. We are not against Muslims. We want Indian Muslims to be happy here. Some of them are unnecessarily taking an adversarial stance against BJP by supporting the corrupt Nehru-Gandhi Congress. They should understand that the dynasty's time is over.

How dare they exercise their democratic right while they still have it. I believe the word you need to borrow is 'uppity'.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:22 am

Yeah, they can exercise their democratic right, but it harms them. If they were not adversarial, then BJP would have thought about providing 'Affirmative action' to poor Muslims too as we are providing to lower castes and tribes. Being an adversary does not bring them any benefit - Why should BJP help them if they are always against it?

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:38 am

Many Muslims have abandoned the adversarial path. We have Muslim Ministers and legislators. Shias have no objection to construct a mosque at a place other than where the Babri Mosque existed in Ayodhya. A lot of Muslim in Gujarat are proud of Modi. Even in Kashmir, BJP is a part of the Government.

Kashmir legislature: Total 87, Peoples Democratic Front - Mehbooba Mufti (currently heading the Government) 29, BJP 26, National Conference - Abdullahs 15, Congress 12. (If it was not for some selection of candidates problems, BJP could very well have been the largest party in Kashmir Legislature)

National Conference also is not averse to participation with BJP. Farooq Abdullah was a cabinet minister in an earlier BJP Government at the Center (2004-2009) under the Prime Ministership of AB Vajpai.

DrZoidberg · Post by **DrZoidberg** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:03 am

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]Many Muslims have abandoned the adversarial path. We have Muslim Ministers and legislators. Shias have no objection to construct a mosque at a place other than where the Babri Mosque existed in Ayodhya. A lot of Muslim in Gujarat are proud of Modi. Even in Kashmir, BJP is a part of the Government.

Kashmir legislature: Total 87, Peoples Democratic Front - Mehbooba Mufti (currently heading the Government) 29, BJP 26, National Conference - Abdullahs 15, Congress 12. (If it was not for some selection of candidates problems, BJP could very well have been the largest party in Kashmir Legislature)

National Conference also is not averse to participation with BJP. Farooq Abdullah was a cabinet minister in an earlier BJP Government at the Center (2004-2009) under the Prime Ministership of AB Vajpai.[/quote]

The idea that Islam is inherently violent and adversarial is as much as modern myth as Hindu peacefulness. Religious people aren't any more peaceful than people in general. They're all about the same. There's also research to back that up.

What makes people violent is the perceived need to be to survive. Religion is a non-factor.

Yes, I'm aware that India is a properly cosmopolitan and mlti-cultural culture, and has been for centuries. For all it's problems India is in many respects way ahead of the rest of the world. I love India. I really do. I'm sorry if I may have come across as I don't.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:53 am

Yeah, we have been challenged many times. By Christian Nagas in Nagaland, by Maoists in Bengal, by Sikhs in Punjab, by Pan-Islamism of IS and Pakistani ISI (Hafiz Mohammad's Jamaat-ud-dawa and Salahuddin's Hizb-ul-Mujahidin, as well as the local SIMI - Students Islamic Movement of India and others) but we have succeeded in keeping the society intact. I am hopeful that in time we will succeed in Kashmir as well. Thanks for considering India indulgently.

DrZoidberg · Post by **DrZoidberg** » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:21 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]Yeah, we have been challenged many times. By Christian Nagas in Nagaland, by Maoists in Bengal, by Sikhs in Punjab, by Pan-Islamism of IS and Pakistani ISI (Hafiz Mohammad's Jamaat-ud-dawa and Salahuddin's Hizb-ul-Mujahidin, as well as the local SIMI - Students Islamic Movement of India and others) but we have succeeded in keeping the society intact. I am hopeful that in time we will succeed in Kashmir as well. Thanks for considering India indulgently.[/quote]

India was multi-cultural since long before the Brits came there. They learned how to do it before everybody else. Since global mobility is only increasing, the whole world will become multi-cultural. Many countries are doing it badly. India will go back to being a model for how to organise society. I'm sure of it.

Europe is still struggling with the transition from the imperial/colonial mindset, where being a white supremacist was normal. To Europeans just being another flavour human like any other. An example, in Europe it's very hard to be proud of your culture and heritage without it becoming chauvinism and racism. As far as I can tell Indians seem to have no problems with this. They can be proud of their culture and stay humble. Europeans often struggle with this. It IS a noticeable difference. In this regard India is way ahead of Europe IMHO.

And we're not going to avoid conflict. In any society we'll have conflict. Ethnic, religious, economic, resources, technology.. and so on. The solution is never to deny differences or remove differences. The solution is always to respect differences, and make a system where there's room for everybody to express whatever. That way conflicts quickly surface and we can get on with resolving them before they get out of hand or infected. I think India is better than Europe at this.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:40 am

Here Rests A Cemetery · Post by **Here Rests A Cemetery** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:35 pm

Muslims like to cry and play the victim card when they get a taste of their own medicine.

Myanmar belongs to Buddhists. India to Hindus and Sikhs. Remember Kashmir.

No sympathy. Sorry.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:45 am

Well, not exactly. It belongs to the Indian citizens irrespective of their faith.

ruby sparks · Post by **ruby sparks** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:57 am

Just to be pedantic, it doesn't 'belong' to anyone, perhaps especially not any particular subset of precocious apes who claim it as theirs, either because they 'got there first' (which they didn't anyway, though they might have been the first precocious apes to get there, that's all) or happen to have occupied for this or that amount of time.

Aupmanyav · Post by **Aupmanyav** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:04 pm

IMHO, it belongs to those who can hold it.

"Hato vā prāpsyasi svargaḿ, jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm;
tasmād uttiṣṭha, Kaunteya, yuddhāya kṛita-niścayaḥ." BhasgaswadGita 2.37

If you die, you will attain heaven; winning you would enjoy the riches of the land. Therefore, O Son of Kunti (Arjuna), get up and engage in the battle with determination.

Here Rests A Cemetery · Post by **Here Rests A Cemetery** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:43 pm

[quote=""Aupmanyav""]Well, not exactly. It belongs to the Indian citizens irrespective of their faith.[/quote]

Perhaps, but I have never met an Indian that wasn't Hindu, Sikh, or Jainist. I live in Brampton, Ontario. I'm surrounded by Indians.

Just to be pedantic, it doesn't 'belong' to anyone, perhaps especially not any particular subset of precocious apes who claim it as theirs, either because they 'got there first

Wait, what? No. This is -exactly- what it boils down into. The only other possibility is that some other group takes that land from you, in which case it becomes theirs. Even in the animal kingdom it works like that, since you wanna compare us to apes.